“It would be foolish to exclude certain outcomes from the start, all options are open”

Pensioenfonds Schoonmaak is “playing chess on several boards”. In the short term, the fund wants to switch to the new pension rules as of January 1, 2026. The focus for the longer term is on developing a new strategy, with a new mission and vision for 2028. Here is a conversation about this with director Tarik Uçar.

What motivates the administrators of the pension funds that APG works for? And what is their experience of the current times in which all kinds of things are coming at them? After all, many funds are in the process of switching to (or have already switched to) the new pension rules. In addition, their administrator is in the middle of a transition. In this series of interviews, we will be talking to them. This time: Tarik Uçar of the Pensioenfonds Schoonmaak.

After PWRI and PPF APG, Pensioenfonds Schoonmaak is the third “APG fund” to switch to the new pension rules. Uçar recognizes that this is a necessary step in a world that is currently characterized by a high degree of uncertainty. “In the Netherlands, we are at a crossroads with all kinds of challenges regarding economic security, safety and the climate. These are challenges that, as a society, we can only tackle together.”

As a fund, what is your role in this?
“First and foremost, we are there for our participants and pensioners. We try to administer the pension scheme at the lowest possible cost and the most appropriate investments. We never invest in companies that violate human rights or labor standards. If that goes hand in hand with investments that contribute to the climate or safety, that's a bonus. We also ask all parties we do business with to sign the Responsible Market Conduct Code.”

You have now submitted the transition and communication plan to the DNB and the AFM. How have those plans been received?
“Very well. There is room for improvement, of course, but nothing insurmountable. For example, there are no objections, in principle, by the regulators. APG also says it is ready for the transition of our fund to the new rules. Our asset manager, Achmea Investment Management, does not see any problems either. In short, everything's been given the green light.”

The Dutch Socialist Party (NSC) generally has a different opinion on that. This party is once again sharpening its knives with an amendment for a referendum. As the administrator of a fund that has yet to make the transition, how do you view this?
“It is being suggested that we decided everything in one evening, without any involvement from others. That is categorically incorrect. There were many meetings over many years. Everything was weighed and considered. Everyone was involved, from young to old, from unions to participants and from regulators to social partners. And then to suggest that something is being taken away from people does not help us as a society. What’s even worse is that in the wake of this, there are people who are stirring up unrest purely out of self-interest. I think that is downright reprehensible.”

It sticks in your craw
“At all kinds of levels in the world, people are sowing discord and uncertainty, while they should be focusing on solutions to the real problems of our generation. This is happening globally, including in the Netherlands and in the pension dossier too. I find that very disturbing.”

What are the main features of your scheme?
“We have always focused on old age pensions, and we will continue to do so in the new scheme. We want our participants to receive the highest possible benefit. In addition, income security is extremely important for our participants. So, once the benefit has started, some pretty crazy things would have to happen before the benefit is reduced. The partner pension is also a priority, where we deviate from the standard in the pension sector. Until the retirement date, partners will receive an amount approximately equal to the government Old Age Pension until their retirement age, in the event of death. This also provides them with a basic income before retirement age. After their 67th birthday, they will receive the government Old Age Pension and the partner pension will stop.”

Are you very involved with this?
“Cleaning is a tough job. That is why our participants, on average, do not live as long as other workers in the Netherlands. This also applies to disability. The percentage of disability is quite high in our participant base.”

How is your participant base developing?
“We have 120,000 active members. This is a very diverse group with many female cleaners, who work in the office market, among others. They earn around 125 percent of the minimum wage. Window cleaners are mainly young men with an income well above 125 percent of the minimum wage. We also have 40,000 pensioners and 300,000 dormant members.”

Is that a sufficiently solid foundation to justify your fund’s existence?
“Yes, is it now, with more than 6 billion euros in invested capital. I don’t expect us to liquidate in the short term and merge into a larger collective. But we are considering a new strategy.”

So one more area of concern. What does the period until transition look like?
“The shop stays open, but at the same time, you are also renovating it. However, the participant should not be aware of this. In addition, we see that society is changing, the world is changing, and the pension system is changing. That is why we asked ourselves: is our governance still appropriate, do our mission and vision still fit the future? We are now also reassessing that. Just look at communication: we have set up certain means of communication, especially at the macro level. For example, we have a Facebook page, which many of our participants use. We communicate generically there. But in the new system, you have to address participants individually. What applies to one person often does not apply to another. So how fitting is that then? But we also look at the implementation: is Pensioenfonds Schoonmaak still in the right place at APG? Or do you want to collaborate more with other funds, or do the administration entirely in-house? There are several possible models, and we are looking at all of them.”

So, you could possibly be saying goodbye to APG as your administrator two years from now?
“All options are open. It would be foolish to exclude certain outcomes from the start.”

In the meantime, ABP has presented a vision on outsourcing, expressing a preference for a single-client strategy in asset management and a multi-client approach in pension administration. How was that message received on your end?
“We knew something was going on, with different scenarios on the table. The fact that in that vision APG continues to serve multiple clients for pension administration is nice for us on the one hand, but on the other hand, I do wonder how this relates to operational excellence. Look, you adjust your strategy to become more efficient and save costs, but does that work in a model where you still have two operations coexisting? The future will tell. But cost awareness does appeal to us, of course. There are good reasons why our mission statement says that as a fund, we strive for engagement, understandability and affordability of our pensions.”

For how long will you personally still shape the future of Pensioenfonds Schoonmaak?
“In two years, my second term will end; I will then have been a director at Pensioenfonds Schoonmaak for eight years. I strongly believe in diversity and that different perspectives and timely alternation of directors make the collective stronger. But until then, I will be fully committed to transitioning our fund to the new pension rules.”